Tuesday, December 6, 2011

Cry Me a River

Michigan is in the Sugar Bowl.  It was announced Sunday night that they will be playing Virginia Tech.  I thought most people knew this was a foregone conclusion (Michigan in the Sugar) after they beat OSU?  Sure, some things could have happened to keep them out but it was always more likely than not they would be selected.

This post is not a shot at my fellow blogger as he hasn't been bitching to me (yet) but more generally the whining and complaining throughout the internet and elsewhere.  Michigan State fans are crying foul.  Of course, all of the arguments I read are delusional, misinformed and illogical.  Starting with Kirk Cousins:
"Michigan sat home tonight on the couch and watched us," the senior said shortly after the game's conclusion. "We played our hearts out — you saw it. I don't see how you get punished for playing and someone else gets to sit on the couch and get what they want.
"If this is the way the system is, I guess it's a broken system."
Michigan's Ryan VanBergen responded appropriately already...
"If he wants to go sit on a couch and watch us play in the Big Ten championship game, then he can do that," Van Bergen said. "They had an opportunity to go the Rose Bowl. It was sitting right in front of them for them to grab. They didn't seize the opportunity.
"I think that they'll do well in the Outback Bowl. Best of luck. Best wishes. We're going to the Sugar Bowl, and we're excited about it."
So where Kirk left off, Spartans have jumped in to carry the banner.  They are clearly cry babies, just like Cousins.

First, let me explain one little fact that most miss in this argument.  Other than the BCS National Championship game, the BCS is not designed to reward teams in any sort of playoff system.  It ranks teams.  It's sole purpose is to find the two best teams to pair up for a one game playoff to determine the national champion.  There are all sorts of problems with this system, but let's save that argument for another day.  This discussion is about the rest of the bowls, which are independent entities out for profit.  The BCS provides some parameters with which these bowls must select, and of course the bowls want to create the best matchups to make money and sell tickets.  So any argument about another team "deserving" a BCS bowl (other than the Championship game) are missing the point to begin with.  Teams are not selected solely on merit!  Everyone should know and expect this outcome every season.

Just for fun, let's assume for a second that BCS bowls were required to select teams solely on merit.  Who deserves to be in a BCS game more, Michigan or MSU?

MSU finished ranked 17th in the final BCS poll, Michigan finished 13th.  For a team to be selected for an at large bid, they must be ranked in the top 14.  So for you math majors, MSU is not even eligible for a BCS bid.

The next argument is that the BCS is a flawed system because Michigan is ranked ahead of MSU.  "The Spartans should not be punished for making their league's championship game!"  is the doozy Cousins first stated and the one I keep reading.

This is clearly illogical.  The Spartans moved down in the rankings because they lost a game.  Should the Big Ten championship game's results not factor into bowl seeding?  Or does a win count for the winning team but a loss doesn't count against the loser?  MSU earned the right to play in the Big Ten Championship, all they had to do to make the Rose Bowl was win the game.  They failed to do so and suffered the consequences of a loss. The game matters just like any other game throughout the season matters. 


"But Michigan State beat Michigan head-to-head!"

This is 100% true.  It also fails to encompass the entire season of each team.  Michigan finished 10-2, MSU 10-3.  Michigan pummeled Nebraska, who pummeled Sparty.  Michigan beat Notre Dame, who beat MSU.  The transitive property never means anything in sports, but the point is that teams play drastically different from week to week.  Head to head matchups tell us who the best team was on a given Saturday, but body of work should be included in determining who the best team is overall. 

So let's take a critical look at body of work.(color coded to show the advantage in each category)


First MSU:
10-3
5 wins over bowl teams
Opponent record = 82-75 (MSU played FCS Youngstown State who finished with a 6-5 record) (MSU also played Wisconsin twice, thus the 12 more total games played)
Record of opponents they beat = 55-66
Best Wins: Wisconsin, Michigan
Losses: @Notre Dame, @Nebraska, neutral site Wisconsin
Score vs Common Opponents: 153-138
Total Defense: 5th (273 yards per game)
Scoring Defense: 9th (17.46 ppg)
Total Offense: 60th (390 yards per game)
Scoring Offense: 39th (30.8 ppg)

For Michigan:
10-2
8 wins over bowl teams
Overall opponent record = 82-63
Record of opponents they beat = 66-54
Best Wins: Nebraska, Notre Dame
Losses: @MSU, @Iowa
Score vs Common Opponents 250-158
Total Defense: 18th (318 yards per game) 
Scoring Defense: 7th (17.17 ppg) 
Total Offense: 30th (435 yards per game)
Scoring Offense: 23rd (34.2 ppg)


Now I know my esteemed colleague says he doesn't like statistics, but I feel this is a pretty slam dunk case above that Michigan played a more difficult schedule and played better within that schedule than the Spartans.  The head to head matchup certainly matters, but the rest of the evidence matters as well. 

All this boils down to one simple little fact;
Michigan is more deserving of a BCS bid than the Spartans.


Keep eatin'

10 comments:

  1. ha. not bad pat. though your logic is flawed - mostly because of our two wins over BCS bowl teams. to your one win over a currently ranked team.

    championship games if they are to not count, should not count for either team, from a win loss perspective or a game statistic perspective, instead just be a launching pad to BCS games. I dont really care about that. UM im sure will help sugar bowl execs with their country club fees.

    tougher schedule? i didnt realize you had so many road games.... can we rehash what you predicted the spartans to go?

    and VanBergen should be ashamed of himself considering his career compared to Cousins. He is nothing, a toad.

    I know this post was strictly to intice me. And I am sure the two spartan readers of this blog wont comment (wimps) all I can really say is...Well see you next year...

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  2. I'm also not really complaining about the Michigan Sugar Bowl selection.

    Pat is of course correct that the BCS is designed only to pick the top two teams for a NC game. And of course to make lots of money for Bowls and their executives.

    If other people complain about the system, well UM is a rival, it's irritating for sure. But I have no illusions about what the BCS is, and to be honest if MSU was playing in the Sugar Bowl I wouldn't really feel any happier about what happened Saturday. The Rose Bowl is important because of its historical connection to the conference, and really even more because it means you won a conference championship. Aside from that the name of the bowl is hardly relevant. There are plenty of Bowl games with better matchups than BCS games.


    Nice system when teams 6-9 (Arkansas, Boise State, Kansas State, and South Carolina) don't go to BCS games. So yea, you can make the case that Michigan ended the season more deserving than MSU, well according to the system all of those teams finished more deserving UM. So spare me the more deserving argument. That's why I bitch about the system, because it's not about "deserving" it's about money.

    As for Cousins, he's part of a Senior Class that UM players can say whatever they want about. Except that they ever beat him. Cuz that never happened.

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  3. Not sure why you guys are mad at VanBergen. He got asked about Cousins comments and I think his reply is exactly the right one. Michigan would have loved the chance to play for the Rose Bowl. Not sure why that's inflammatory in any way.

    I'm going to use this quote out of context forever:

    Trivialstuff said...
    Pat is of course correct

    I think Kenny's response is the correct one here, who cares what bowl UM goes to? If you don't want to be little brother you gotta stop being so obsessed and butt hurt about Michigan.

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  4. you should note that no one here has really mentioned anything about feeling obsessions or butt pain about um's bowl game. its more about our own loss.

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  5. Neither MSU or Michigan were GREAT teams this year, neither truly earned a BCS bowl bid (though MSU came excruciatingly close.) I do agree with Zach that having an extra loss in a championship game (and losing in the narrowest fashion possible) shouldn't decrease your standing in the rankings relative to conference opponents who were sitting home.

    With identical regular season records and given the results of the head-to-head match-up, I think you have to say that MSU was a better team this season. As with instant replay, I think the extra statistical analysis would have to be a lot more overwhelming for me to overturn the results of the head-to-head match-up.

    Finally, I need to call bullshit on Pat's "If you don't want to be little brother you gotta stop being so obsessed and butt hurt about Michigan." As we saw with the BCS rankings/Sugar Bowl decision, Michigan is still a more national program, but it's also so much closer than it's ever been in our lifetime. Michigan isn't invincible anymore. For one, you saw that in the way that Michigan fans celebrated beating OSU like they had just knocked off the number one team in the country and not a .500 team (the same "little brother" mentality that Michigan fans always accuse MSU of.) Secondly, I was watching the MSU/Wisco game with a bunch of Michigan fans, and they were all cheering for Wisco. To me, that shows how insecure Michigan feels (and they should... MSU keeps beating them.)

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  6. Tbone - you are right. You and trivialstuff haven't been whining at all and I commend you for that. I've been hearing all sorts of nonsense elsewhere. I thought I made the point clear this wasn't directed at you.

    Caddy lack - let's attack this one by paragraph.

    1st- True, neither team was elite. They were both top 20 teams throughout the season, well above average teams, but not elite.

    To be honest, I would have argued that Michigan had a better season than MSU before the B1G championship game (though it's extremely close as they had very similar years) Another loss, to me, (and apparently the majority of voters and the computers) only cemented that fact. MSU was ranked higher before the B1G championship game because they lost earlier and won the head to head matchup.

    MSU undoubtedly had the better season within the conference, but when determining bowls, it's more than just the conference season that matters. Michigan undoubtedly had a better nonconference season.

    If you truly believe that losing a game shouldn't hurt you, well then I guess you're just a crazy person. I could understand this logic if Wisconsin was the #1 team in the nation and clearly superior to everyone else, maybe if MSU had lost a heartbreaker to LSU they would have a gripe but in fact Wisconsin is a great offensive team with a very average defense. Losing to a two loss team should never, ever, leave a team at the same ranking, no matter how the loss comes about.

    2nd paragraph - bleh. MSU beat Michigan in East Lansing in October. I'd be curious to see what a vegas line would be if the teams played a neutral site game tomorrow. My point is that the records are indeed not identical. If you want to just gloss over and look at win/loss and head to head, that's a lazy way to form an opinion.

    3rd paragraph - I was cheering for MSU, can't comment on other Michigan fans.

    I don't think the national perception of the programs is remotely close. I've said it on this blog before and I'll say it again. MSU is enjoying their best success in half a century. Michigan is coming off the worst 3 year stretch in half a century... and what do you know, Michigan is going to a better bowl game this year.

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  7. Regardless of how you feel about their overall seasons, which were nearly identical, I think you're drastically underplaying the importance of the head-to-head match-up in a way that's self-serving.

    One of the few things I like about college football is the historical tradition (now somewhat negated by the possibility of meeting again in a conference championship game or BCS game) of playing someone once a year and only once. If you lose, it's wait until next year. For now Michigan is the team that once again couldn't beat State--until they have a chance next year. This is why college football fans treat every Saturday as a day of transcendent world-shattering importance.

    But you somehow think the head-to-head evaluation is a less important measure than scoring offense.

    If OSU and Michigan both went 10-2 while Michigan beat OSU, I doubt you'd have much patience with OSU fans who argued their season was superior because they played a tougher non-conference schedule.

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  8. apparently I just have to call our three readers wimps to get them to post. BOO YAH. this makes blogging a lot more fun.

    also, if the two teams played tomorrow, assuming we didnt just play the B1G championship, there is not doubt in my mind that MSU would win.

    All readers should note that biologically, pat and I are both little brothers.

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  9. Both teams are not 10-2, that's the simple fact.

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  10. "I don't think the national perception of the programs is remotely close. I've said it on this blog before and I'll say it again. MSU is enjoying their best success in half a century. Michigan is coming off the worst 3 year stretch in half a century... and what do you know, Michigan is going to a better bowl game this year."

    This comment is the glaring reason that the BCS is completely flawed and how these "prominent" schools can ride the coat tails of their predecessors success. Even with our best success, MSU (along with other schools like Boise State, K State, Arkansas) we will always be screwed because of the national perception of other schools and how many fake leather jackets they can sell at Walmart.

    Although I am bitter about not going to the Rose Bowl, I agree with UM fans that the championship game was ours to win and we blew it. I, however, don't see the logic in losing a championship game and going from having the best conference record to becoming #3. I feel the same way that Kirk Cousins feels about this. A team that didn't earn the right to play in a championship game benefits from a loss of one of those two teams. Its not like this is a playoff and UM earned the right of a by in the first round. I guess it is happening everywhere though, Alabama couldn't win their conference, let alone their division and they get to go to the National Championship.

    Also, about the National Championship, if LSU and OK State win, do the Cowboys move to #2 because of a better record but not playing in the National Championship game? If Alabama wins, do they split the National Championship?

    No Logic what so ever.......

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